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Hi all, here I am with a little more light reading to follow my dissertation on Han Solo. I’d like to start a discussion about our identity as a guild and how raiding fits into that specifically. We’ve recently reached our umpteenth Curve and we’re realm 17th. It’s an achievement to be proud of considering our casual approach. We were all very satisfied and big thanks to everyone who persevered to make this possible!
But I wouldn’t be writing this if there wasn’t some cause for concern. Our numbers have been dwindling over the last couple of months for numerous different reasons. Of course for this to happen is nothing more than natural. People lose interest, burn out or move on to other things. The problem is that our raider influx has stagnated and crawled pretty much to a halt as well, leading to an erosion of sign up numbers. For every raid we have a solid turnout there’s two or three where we need to pug to make anything happen.
It’s self-explanatory that several reasons for the low influx are external; BfA hasn’t done much to keep people playing, our server is not the most richly populated and maybe not all the applications we do get feel like a good fit to us. But I can’t help but feel we could do more on a guild policy level, recruitment-wise. That’s where the more general discussion on guild identity comes in. Does specific raid-focussed recruiting fit Aspiration? It might turn out Aspiration means different things to different people; I’d like to gauge that.
I have the feeling that for many of us (how many remains to be seen in the hopefully following discussion) raiding has become the most important aspect of the game. It’s where we truly feel that working as a guild pays off and the social element gets fulfilled. I’d even go so far to say, if dwindling numbers kept raids from occurring at all, most of the core of the guild would leave for a place where that kind of enjoyment can be had. I want to keep that from happening of course, we have a good core with great people and I can’t imagine a more fun bunch to play twice a week with.
But as our recruitment messages and website/charter say, we are a social guild. What does that mean if raiding has become a large part of what’s keeping that together? Times have changed and maybe the guild could do better to reflect that change. Would it not be prudent to aim to improve the aspect of the guild that most members find most important? If it is in fact the most important to the majority? I’d love to hear your thoughts.
Next piece will be about why you’re wrong to like Rogue One. <3
Last edited by Trilliam88 on Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total
you are quite right in what you say, well everything realy, recuitment is lacking, no question about it, and I do aggree we should recuit raiders, and this is a dilema a quite big one, becuse if we do this, the social part will sooner or later dissapare totaly, do we want it or do we want to keep more social members also.
also the server in general is not realy doing well for the moment at all, be it bfa being bad expac, game getting old, people getting old or to many guilds on one server, this actualy reflects our postion being 17th also, if you look at big servers, for example we would not even be top 300 not even close, this reflects the server status a lot also.
but what do about it, start spaming in game is an option, and at same time change our policy totaly, or migrate and start over on a big server, there is options, but I am also quite sure, what ever we do someone will not be happy about it.
there is also other problems, I wont be disccusing for the moment atleast.
But I am all up for suggestions what we should do and how to handle a rather difficult situation.
What other problems are there Wal, I think given we’re having a look at the guild there is room for a holistic approach where we can maybe solve more issues that we may have.
I think a guild meeting on discord is the best course to take initially. Open floor for all to have their day regarding raiding, recruitment, social aspect and whatever else.
I don't see how recruiting raiders would make the social side of the guild dissapear. Would the social aspect change, probably, but it wouldn't dissapear completly.
I also don't see why we would recruit one but not the other, just because we'd recruit raiders doesn't mean we can't recruit "socials".
Honestly, the biggest issue is the server. It's a low pop server, so there is a finite number of people and there are guilds that are alot better than us that need/want people. So something we have to address is why would someone, who wants to raid, join our guild and not a better one.
I am not sure other guilds are that much better than us, some are that is for sure specialy the Mythic raiding ones, but one thing they are better than us is to organice and be shown in game, this one part we lack, we most are on the server but not much else, many others to recuit ingame quite heavily including the mythic guilds, I am not eighter sure how many times a week they raid, might be more than only 2 days, but that part I am not sure about at all, but probably some atleast do.
@mal, I anticipate there will be guildies who feel it is at odds with our guild philosophy to focus on raiding needs when recruiting. Almost every guild has a token "socials welcome!" tacked on on the end of their recruitment messages, while in practice these socials will never be part of an in-group. That potential segregation might be something people are weary of. Was more speculation on my part than any actual argument I've heard though, just trying to get some discussion going.
Thinking more about this, I do think if we want to survive, we have to recuit raiders, but at same time also let socials join, there is no question about it, will this change the structure of the guild maby it will, but maby a change is what we need, we have been dwelling in the past for to long, and I do think a change is needed, will it work out, well only time will tell. Might someone not like it, well probably but to be honest, it is not possible to please everyone, even if I would love to do that.
But our main focus should be to get a few more raiders in, that is for sure, that for I have already taken some steps to do so, if you can notice it i am not sure hehe.
Agree with Wal, seems the guild over the last 3 years has adapted and that perhaps the ethos should be tweaked slightly to reflect that.
Could embrace the raiding as a cornerstone which it has become whilst maintaining the inclusive attitude and atmosphere of the guild. The two are not mutually exclusive, might be healthy for the guild also to make some other changes if they are seen as useful for the guild.
I don't know if it has really adapted that much. I think the guild has followed the game really. There are lots of things that can be done solo. Everyone is looking forward to Wednesday to grow that amount as it's obviously become stale and needs a refresh.
When I log into the game I expect one of two things. Either I'm raiding with the guild, which I love, or I'm doing some solo content, which I love.
M+'s are a nice addition, but from my side I like them for the challenge, rewards and the ad-hoc nature of getting a run. Others are different and run several keys in a week and want to push their keys. Great for them, but I don't mind missing a week then getting in a group randomly. I only do M+'s with the guild, so go when they're happening and there is a spot, but don't push.
Outside of that, I don't need (want) people with me as I grind, quest, level etc. It's fun to do it at my own pace. I'm happy doing 5 HC islands rather than 3 mythic, but if there is a guild group for mythic then great.
So, I don't really know what, outside of raiding and people being online to chat with, I expect from the guild. It fulfills it's function of having some great people who I like to spend time with, and help me see HC content and have a laugh. Outside of that anything is a bonus.
I expect we need more players, and I expect most players (not all, but most) will have some desire to raid.
I also predict that for the next 6 weeks numbers won't be as big an issue as people come back to the game following the patch. It's been a very stagnant period for the game, and quite rightly people took a break. Let's hope it's going to be fun again.
I am not sure that people will come back for the patch in any kind of numbers that will help us. I heard that before the previous patch, and no one came back. We have Vanilla coming as well, that some of us might disappear into.
Personally I feel that we can't afford to have many more raid nights like last night, where getting pugs in, telling pugs what to do, wiping with pugs, having pugs leave, took most of the time, to the point where we only managed to kill 2 heroic bosses in 3 hours. I worry I will loose even more friends to other games/guilds if we can't recruit more raiders.
For me this is the core of the game - the raiding with friends - that is the part I can't do without and I see us as a wonderfully accepting and friendly raiding guild, where everyone regardless of skill are allowed to raid and socials are welcome.
I will follow the guild everywhere, to which ever server the officers feel is best for recruiting more raiders, so I can keep enjoying the game the way I like to.
You can run mythic+ without more guildies, play solo without more guildies, be social without more guildies, but we can't raid without more raiders.
I wanted to wait a little before replying to give others a chance to post and to get some more feedback from people that I have not already chatted to about this in person.
Bee is 100% right in that raids like last night, whilst we managed to keep the atmosphere relatively fun and chill (I think), frustration was obvious. To kill just two bosses that we have had on farm for months, and considerably out-gear, I would be worried if people were not frustrated.
It is just simple math - we do not have the numbers of people signing up regularly for raids. We are right on the limit for the minimum raid size. I think we need to be in a position where we have four or even five more regular people attending raids, otherwise we will keep finding ourselves with raids like last night, playing the pug lottery. Even great players picked up as a pug can still be hard to co-ordinate and get a cohesive raid together.
I think I have said a few times, the new patch is soon, more people will come back and we will be fine again, but I keep saying it, and I keep being wrong... It might be the case for one or two raids, but then we are back to where we are. And with classic coming in at the same time as the new patch enthusiasm dies down, we will be in trouble...
And I just wrote a wall of text that basically says two simple words. I agree. With what others have posted.
We either need to change our recruitment strategy and recruit three or four players, or we consider other options. The only option I have currently heard that feels viable is that we look for another server with a high population and consider moving to it.
Whatever we do, we have to do something. I love the guild, and the people in it, but I play the game to raid (preferably with those people) and if we are not doing that to a reasonable level, I am not sure I will be able to motivate myself to keep playing.
On Thursday 4th's raid, I would like to propose that we get together at the raid start and have a discussion on Discord, a forum post is great, but an actual conversation, that is where we can actually discuss things properly and hopefully hear people's opinion and work out what everyone wants. I do not see Aspiration as anything specific, not a social guild, not a raiding guild, I see it as a group of people that play the game together, and I feel Aspiration should reflect the interest of those people. Without those people, it is just a name.